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Oooos! Ossu! Osssss!
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| gojuryu |
Posted on 30-01-2007 12:25
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Site Administrator
Posts: 862
Joined: 02.04.05
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The "Oooos! Ossu! Osssss!" word. Over a recent conversation we had the opportunity to speak about it and everyone agreed that it was inappropriate however still a part of our 'dojo language'. We were even informed of two other articles floating on the internet with similar clarification and equal reluctance to use the term however the Oooos! Ossu! Osssss! found in many dojo continues to plague us. In a few dojo it is very normal to use the terminology Ossu! however it should be reserved for Boxing, MMA, 24hour fitness and possibly Kyokushinkai but we have never heard such in very traditional dojo [Iaido, Aikijutsu] and likewise should be the same in Goju Ryu Dojo. What your thought? |
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| Panzer |
Posted on 30-01-2007 14:17
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Kyu Holder
Posts: 70
Joined: 20.12.05
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Never used it. Never got it. |
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| dikkers |
Posted on 30-01-2007 15:53
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Window Peeking
Posts: 6
Joined: 20.09.06
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I initially understood it as a quick "i understand". Now i understand it as a (formerly) Japanese navel term for "yo".
Walking into a dojo of sensei/sempai and going, "yo yo yo yo", doesnt seem to convey much respect.
And given I do Okinawan Karate and not Japanese, i don't do it, and try to minimise it's use in the Dojo.
Hai Sensei work just fine for me. I even accidently used it when i was being trained in squash once. Got a funny look
Edited by dikkers on 30-01-2007 16:10 |
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| nh goju ryu |
Posted on 30-01-2007 19:39
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Ikkyu
Posts: 250
Joined: 03.04.05
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At the McDojo I used to go to, the local grandmaster there said that when you kiai you're supposed to yell Ooosss! And when you get more advanced you leace the sss off it.....hahahah |
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| ae |
Posted on 01-02-2007 13:35
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Ikkyu
Posts: 269
Joined: 19.11.05
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In Perú only Shotokan people used it, not goju ryu. We used "hai sensei". and sometimes, here in VA, I look like the most stupidly polite man in town when somebody addresses me and I answer "hi". |
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| Shobukan1 |
Posted on 01-02-2007 18:13
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Newbie
Posts: 28
Joined: 06.06.06
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Sitting in the Hombu dojo one evening while in Okinawa, Kancho made it quite clear to a group of us that this is a Japanese phrase and many Okinawans find it insulting. He asked that it not be spoken in his presesence or in any of our dojo's. He did share the preferred Okinawan (Hogan) phrase but.. it was lost in the fog of way too much sake.
And with the exception of trying to get the unsuspecting Kyu ranks to say it so we could watch them get "the look" from Kancho, this phrase is no longer used. |
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| PictonMA |
Posted on 01-02-2007 19:27
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Administrator
Posts: 252
Joined: 09.07.05
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Don't use it, can't stand it. |
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| Shidokai |
Posted on 01-02-2007 19:55
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Administrator
Posts: 666
Joined: 25.04.05
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I see it more in use as a superior talking to an inferior and being both curt and rude. It's basically saying "(I don't have the time or patience to grant you a full answer and so instead will say) Yeah."
I actually tend to see it used a lot with male coaches when they address their players. Situations go something like this:
Player: Ohayo gozaimasu (Stops walking, drops his bookbag, and bows)
Coach: Oss (keeps walking, does not make eye contact with the person he addresses)
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| cobra-kai |
Posted on 01-02-2007 20:13
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Ikkyu
Posts: 249
Joined: 01.08.05
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I'm all oused out.
used it way too much in the past.
have not said it in 6 years unless a Japanese Sensei or senpai says it to me first.
when my students visit another dojo for clinics they always come back asking about this funny word everybody kept saying  |
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| JKMann |
Posted on 02-02-2007 08:20
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Shodan-ho
Posts: 417
Joined: 06.12.05
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Shidokai wrote:
Player: Ohayo gozaimasu (Stops walking, drops his bookbag, and bows)
Coach: Oss (keeps walking, does not make eye contact with the person he addresses)
For those of you more familiar with Japanese culture than I:
Can you help me understand something? It seems that, while Japanese culture is very hierarchical, there is supposed to be this mutual respect between people. So, in the case of bowing, the junior bows a little lower and longer, but the senior shows a certain respect in bowing back. However, there have been times I have witnessed the sort of attitude you describe above, where the senior is completely dismissive of the junior. As an American, where we are very egalitarian, such behavior bothers me. Now, I understand that cultures differ, and I understand that every country has jerks. My question is, do the Japanese feel that such superior, aloof behavior (e.g. the coach) is rude or not?
As one parallel, in the Philippines I am still struck by how rude patrons are to waiters/servers at restaurants. However, its just a different culture, and the waitstaff are not offended. Is it the same in Japan, or is it still rude not to politely acknowledge someone who bows to you? Thanks.
(I know this is a little off topic, but I think it connects to the initial question. If others want me to make this its own thread, please let me know.)
Edited by JKMann on 02-02-2007 10:18 |
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| gojuryu |
Posted on 02-02-2007 13:25
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Site Administrator
Posts: 862
Joined: 02.04.05
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Actually, Jeff, subject fits right here perfectly. |
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| gojuryu |
Posted on 02-02-2007 14:04
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Site Administrator
Posts: 862
Joined: 02.04.05
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I have an ongoing conversation with a Dojo Owner / Instructor here in Northern Californaia I would like to share with you all. It goes in the following order.
from Shihan XXXX XXXXXX <> hide details Feb 1 (1 day ago)
reply-to Shihan XXXX XXXXXX <>
to
date Feb 1, 2007 10:36 AM
subject Osu!
mailed-by XXXXXXX.com
Osu!
I hold a Ni-dan Xxxxxxxxxxxx and a sixth Dan in World Xxxxx Karate. Trained almost forty years my instructors Xxxxx Xxxxxxx Xxxxx, Kaicho Xxxxxxx Xxxxxxxx, Saiko Shihan X. Xxxxx, fought full contact ten years. I am 67 years old and find your article not funny. I am sure if Master Xxxxx was alive he would would be upset that osu was relegated to F..., dude, sweeeeet. Osu! Shihan XXXX
"Gojuryu" to Shihan
Feb 1 (1 day ago) Xxxxxx Sensei,
You concern is appreciated however as the article indicated, Kyokushinkai dojo are an exception just like boxing or MMA in Japan. You Xxx Xxxx school is exceptional and if you use the phrase you have no reason to defend it however in Goju Ryu Dojo it is inappropriate. Perhaps Xxxxxxxxx Sensei can further explain.
____________________________
note:
The Sensei I referred him to speak to is a Japan born and raised Japanese American teaching at his dojo. |
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| gojuryu |
Posted on 02-02-2007 14:07
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Site Administrator
Posts: 862
Joined: 02.04.05
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Xxxx Xxxxxx
to Sensei, gojuryu
Feb 1 (17 hours ago)
Osu!
Maybe you should read this note from one of my San-dans in China.
Osu!
Well, since I'm a former Goju Ryu practitioner, I'll put in my two cents.
Osu is a term derived from a greeting used only by Samurai. It is now used in Japan as a greeting by martial artists and certain athletes, particularly baseball players. Kendo practitioners also use Osu as a greeting and general courtesy.
I don't know what the guy who wrote this about Goju is thinking, but regardless of what it actually means, Osu was used in every karate school I ever attended, Goju Ryu or not. It is now part of generally accepted Karate culture, and I think to try to prevent people from using it is nuts.
Hello again Xxxx Sensei,
As I previousely said, you shouldn't have to argue your point with me regarding your dojo. As for the term having been used by Samurai, that is completely incorrect as the term did not come into existance until the early 1900's.
A person having had practiced Gojuryu Karatedo does not necessarily mean they know of Japanese culture and Keigo [which is proper for communicating in educational circumstances] cannot be cross utilized with blunt style non-honorific speech.
If you wouldn't mind I would like to also post this communication on the forums. Sensei Corner Oooos! Ossu! Osssss!
Please be insured that your name and information will not be revealed regarding the conversation however by seeing the rest of the thread you can likely asses a bit more information regarding the subject. |
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| SyracuseJundokan |
Posted on 04-02-2007 03:40
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Yudansha
Posts: 833
Joined: 08.06.05
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FWIW - it's not used in Jundokan and I remember Miyazato Sensei finding it funny when visitors used it... |
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| cobra-kai |
Posted on 04-02-2007 06:35
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Ikkyu
Posts: 249
Joined: 01.08.05
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Osu is real big with the Shotokan dojos around here, including the Japanese sensei's.
They tend to use it like a "Sir Yes Sir" kind of shout. |
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| carl |
Posted on 04-02-2007 20:14
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Administrator
Posts: 472
Joined: 03.04.05
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I wasn't familiar with this... what do you call it, a greeting? an acknowledgement? Until I began to participate on martial art forums. I never heard it from any of my Goju-ryu teachers. I wasn't sure, and am still not sure what the meaning of the term is. I've never used it, and probably never will. To each his own, I guess.
Carl |
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| SyracuseJundokan |
Posted on 05-02-2007 16:39
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Yudansha
Posts: 833
Joined: 08.06.05
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For those who use it, it seems to pretty much mean whatever you want it to mean...
Yes, No, I understand, I will, You're so smart!, I feel properly reprimanded!, Your will is my command, Make it so number 2, whatever! Thank you for your kindness, Thank you for your harshness, Thank you for not ignoring me, May I please wipe your a$$ for you honorable sensei, I agree, I love you, I hate you, I will kick your butt in this shiai!, Thank you for giving me a point honorable referee, I accept the point you gave the other guy honorable referee, Are you kidding honorable referee?, I'm ready!, I quit!, I should have quit!, I shouldn't have quit, I kicked his butt, He kicked my butt...
This is fun - let's list some more - I've contributed enough!! |
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| gojuryu |
Posted on 05-02-2007 17:44
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Site Administrator
Posts: 862
Joined: 02.04.05
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Oss |
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| kuma-de |
Posted on 05-02-2007 23:00
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Newbie
Posts: 44
Joined: 05.04.05
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dikkers wrote:
I initially understood it as a quick "i understand". Now i understand it as a (formerly) Japanese navel term for "yo".
Walking into a dojo of sensei/sempai and going, "yo yo yo yo", doesnt seem to convey much respect.
And given I do Okinawan Karate and not Japanese, i don't do it, and try to minimise it's use in the Dojo.
Hai Sensei work just fine for me. I even accidently used it when i was being trained in squash once. Got a funny look
I agree with dikkers as to the point that it is a Japanese Naval term carried from the submarine fleet back to the college teams and some larger dojo.
Recall that one of Funakoshi's backers was a famous pre-WWII Naval Admiral.
Osu, Oos, etc., as my Sensei (Teruo Chinen) told us once that it is a contraction of the term "Onegai Shimasu" or if you please, or it can also be loosely translated in the military jargon "by your leave'...
So when a junior submariner was passing down the walkway and came to attention when a Sr. officer was passing, he would jump to attention and the officer would say "Osu" or "if you please"; but it was a slang word, sending a demeaning attitude to the subordinate. The same was done among peers passing each other in the sub which was very crowded.
I am not too sure how it became so prominent in the Shotokan dojo, it is obvious why Kyokushinkai adopted it, and even some Judo folks use it. I see it very rarely in Japanese or Okinawan Goju.
Just my thoughts,
~JP |
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| cobra-kai |
Posted on 06-02-2007 13:22
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Ikkyu
Posts: 249
Joined: 01.08.05
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some people will tell you it means "push" in Japanese and is on any door that you have to push to open.
so when you say it in class after 20x doing sanchin you're saying push on or push yourself.
you guys ever heard that one before?
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